Well, I think, I could talk through that with just a little bit of my own experience, which is, I started this project called incubate, which was sort of an artist-based residency program, a kind of think tank to think about how arts organizations and infrastructure could support socially engaged art. And one of the reasons that we were really excited to do the project was because Chicago specifically had this really great history and current kind of activity around socially engaged work. And so we really wanted to figure out how, as new people to the city, that we could really, really participate in that in a meaningful way. So it felt like creating a space, creating a series of projects where we would invite artists in to co-produce things with us. Was sort of a way of making a hospitable gesture to the city that we were in. So we think that, that really kind of set the groundwork for thinking about a regional specificity to the work that we do. In the sense that it's not about Chicago is the only place to do this work, or Chicago is so special, but that Chicago has a particular history in that particular context. And some of that has to do with the really long range history like thinking about Chicago as a place of community organizing. It's working class city. We have all these great central figures like Studs Terkel and Winona Brooks. And all these people that are really important cultural figures here that sort of set the stage for kind of an artist activity. But also just sort of thinking about temporary-wise, like what are artists making work here, and who did we want to connect to? So I guess that, and sort of thinking about that regionalism as an exciting possibility as a place to start and not to always just think towards traditional centers of art as the place where interesting things happen. And so a little bit with thinking about incubate, it was also about inviting people in from other places to kind of work and be part of that city. And so that was why we decided the number of residents in program. It's just to always sort of figure out those ways in which you're creating openings in your locality that you can inject new ideas, but also sort of respect the things that are happening there already. And that, I'm thinking about a project like we did with Sunday stew, which was a community meal that raised funds for social engaged projects. And how that grew into a network that other people participated in by starting their own chapters. It really was a way to sort of say well in Chicago, this is how it works because of the community that's here. And this is why they want it to happen and this is how we're engaging with it. But then when it turned it to a networked project, it was really about learning about these different contexts and what they needed. And they were sort of able to take that on, and sort of mold and change it in a way that was relevant to them. So Baltimore and Philadelphia, all these different places, the artist community and the community itself just needed something different. And so sort of creating a framework for them is context rated but also kind of open to change then you really sort of get to learn a lot more about where you're operating from and sort of what other contexts you need. In the context of making the support networks book on Chicago social practice and the fact that it was part of four books, so there are other editors that also engaged in this process with me. And it was part of an exhibition at. It was really about this idea of socially engaged art, it's sort of seen as a very popular and new idea. And sort of that there are a lot of artists of that taking towards it. And they're gravitating towards it for very good reasons. I mean I think because I think there's an urgency right now around trying to figure out how to contribute to a civic and social life outside of sort of feeling that the art world is the most satisfying place to do that. And so with that kind of popularity, and with this idea that education's being devoted to it, new institutional spotlighting and highlighting of this kind of work, that there's all of this sort of buzz about what this thing is. But it does come out of a regional history and there is a much longer trajectory. And there are other places to learn from. Not necessarily only from art history. And so if you're engaging in these kind of social activities then sort of thinking about how musicians organize or thinking about how poets organize or thinking about social clubs, or art work, legacy like Jane Adams and how important that is to sort of, this idea of multi-use centers which is important to social engaged artists today. So that is really it felt like it really needed to happen across all the boats. It really needed to happen to sort of draw a broader picture as to what to be skeptical of, and what to sort of understand has a long history that we need to be respectful of, too. I feel like questioning critical respect. But just sort of paying homage to other people that have done the work that laid the groundwork for how artists are thinking about it right now. The kind of artist run culture and also kind of the small amount profit world that they sort of act as incubators of what larger institutions feed upon. And so, in that way, I think, that one of those challenges is to articulate the value that's happening on that level. So you don't always have to believe in you don't always have to believe in institutionalizing in order to sort of value the level in which your operating on. I mean one of the reason that, well, I was going to say one of the reasons that artist-run spaces sort of turned into institutions, in a sense, is that at a certain point, there was governmental funding to hire artists to work in those spaces. And then under a program called CETA, the Comprehensive Employment Training Act, which believes that you would train artists as along side, we would train other kinds of workers. Then Reagan took that program away and then all of a sudden then this sort of birth of this administrative class came into being and so people got graduate degrees and being administrator. And then they go work in those spaces and sort of the difference is that you're seeing between what's happening in an organization, what's happening within the artist communities, sort of become more and more I obviously respect them. And I'm someone that studied art administration. I mean I'm not saying that you can't sort of operate within that sort of way of thinking and not sort of think creatively too. But I do think it's sort of there's a historical specificity to sort of always keep in mind in terms of where, how choices will be made.
