[MUSIC] Hi, welcome to another segment on the craft of plot module. With me today is the incomparable Amy Bloom, author of a number of novels and collection of short stories. Amy, a pleasure to have you. >> It's nice to be here. >> So, let me start by asking you about character, because I know that your module deals with character. What is the best way that a writer can get to know his or her characters? >> Well, I think one of the hard things is when we say get to know in real life. It's as if there's somebody there to get to know. You meet somebody at the bus stop. You meet somebody at school. You meet somebody at work. You get to know them by talking to them and hanging out with them. When you're having an imaginary character, you have to create them so that you can hang out with them in your own mind. So you have to begin, I think often either with the external. You see somebody, they catch your eye, you begin to build your character from the little boy, an old man, a lady that you see on the street. But the other possibility is that you hear something, and for me that's usually how character begins. That's why I encourage my students to eavesdrop. Whether you're in school or work or on the street or in a cab or on a subway, listen to what people have to say because there might be something in a moment that catches your imagination. And then you begin to hear the voice. And you see the situation. And then you begin, in some sense, internally to design your character. And one of the things is, you need to be able to see them. They need to be whole. They need to be three dimensional. It's never enough to say movie star handsome because which movie star do you have in mind? Do you have in mind some great star of Bollywood from 1980, or do you have in mind George Clooney? Or do you have in mind a hobbit? What kind of movie star do you have in mind? >> Or all three. [LAUGH] >> Or all three. And that is going to be some character. >> Exactly, I'd love to see that movie. [LAUGH] >> So, you have to sort of say to yourself, how do I begin to imagine somebody? Sometimes one of the early exercises that you can do is think about people in your family and think about them at other points in time, imagining your own mother or father 30 years ago. What were they like as younger people. Imagining a younger brother or sister as an adult and just forcing your imagination, stretching your muscles to begin to imagine people who are not real. >> I think that's a really excellent point. Focusing on the external and in particular focusing on people from your own family using them as templates for characters that you would like to write about in your own fiction. One of the things I know that we've talked about is flaws. And I think that what happens in fiction is that people create such idealized versions of the live's that they want to live, that many of the characters, the protagonists that they are writing about, are so perfect. Do you feel flaws are important in describing a character and if so, why? >> I think flaws are necessary. I think everybody comes with them. It's not optional, it's not like you can get a human being without flaws as if you want a car without air-conditioning. It's like human being comes with flaws, that's how you recognize us. That's why we are not beautiful flowers. We are people. We make mistakes. Good people do bad things. It's also true that bad people do bad things, but that's actually not as interesting, that's a villain. That's for a comic book. That's for The Transformers. But, what's interesting is when good people who have fairly good intentions run into their own desires and their own wishes, and they are in conflict within themselves. The first conflict for a character that creates their visible flaw is the conflict within themselves. I want this and I want that. I want to be skinny, but I want a donut. I want to be a good person, but I'd like to be rich. It's not always easy to bring those things together. And that's when you give your character a situation in which they are filled with conflicting wishes, we get to see how their flaws rise to the surface. A bad temper doesn't make you a bad person. A wish to avoid conflict doesn't make you a bad person, but it may not make you a great ally. A desperate longing to be somewhere else, a lack of love for a partner these are not things that make bad people. But they are all human flaws. And what I would say is, I appreciate the impulse when we're first writing to make everybody look good because it's sort of the dream world. But fiction is not about a dream world. Fiction is about a real world that you create from your imagination. >> And I think that's a really excellent point to emphasize that a character can be flawed without necessarily being the villain. And thinking about all of the great characters that perhaps you can think about from Harry Potter on down. Those are characters that are flawed individuals and more interesting because of those flaws. One of the things I often talk about with my student's is the importance of revision. How do you think revision works in helping us understand a character better? I know that oftentimes when I'm working on a piece of fiction, a character will present itself to me in a very shadowy form. And I'll have to spend many, many months finding out the architecture of what a character wants, their desire, etc. What process do you go through in your revision process to help understand a character better? Well, I often feel that I am sort of the bumbling private detective. I am my own Pink Panther. I am trying to follow this character through the shadows, down the alleyways, into buildings I don't recognize, across terrain that I'm not familiar with to get more glimpses of who they are. And I think that revision, to me revision is the writer's best friend. It's your opportunity to make it better. Not to look back and go that didn't work, dear, I need to stop. But to say, there was one little glimmer in there, and that was a good idea. And now I have to fan that, and bring it to life, and make it a whole light. And that's what you do with the character. You see, I had that moment where I thought he reminded me of that guy that I had met who was the salesman. What about that? What about the salesman's marriage? What about the salesman's background? Is he from the north or the south? Is he successful or unsuccessful? Is he happy in his work, is he happy in his marriage? Does he have kids? Does he have an elderly mother? Does he visit her or does he not visit her? And then I'm off and running. And revision is the opportunity to polish that, to reset it, to recast it. You know, the first time you create Harry Potter, maybe he doesn't have the lightning bolt on his forehead and you think, that's what he needs. >> Right. >> He needs the lightning bolt because we need to understand his parents because they never really go away even though they're gone. >> And I think it's really, again, a really excellent point that Amy's making is that discovering what your character does or discovering who your character is, is really an interrogative process. The more questions that you ask about what your character wants and needs, the deeper you will understand that character and the better that character will act on the page. So, in the remaining time that we have left. Can you give me the best advice that anybody's given you, be it a writer, friend, reader about how to create a good, believable character? >> I wish somebody had given me good advice about it. >> [LAUGH]. >> I'm still hoping somebody will give me good advice about it. But what I find myself thinking now is that the two essential pieces for character are observation and empathy. Look around, look around all the time. If you are a writer, even if you are a writer at the very beginning of learning how to be a writer, you're an observer. You like to look. You are curious about people. You notice them wherever you are. So to use your skill of observation, to begin to pick people out of the world and focus in on them. And then the second thing is it's not enough to describe somebody. You actually have to try to be them. And that's really the hard part. Most of us have enough trouble being ourselves, without having to then also take on the task of being other people. But when you're a writer that's the job. It's not enough to be able to describe the character. You have to enter into their body, into their soul, and see the world as they see it. Not as we observe them seeing it, but how they actually see what is happening to them. What I always say is bad people don't think they're bad. And that's how you create character. You enter into them and see it as they see it. >> Observation and empathy, again, the two key components into creating a believable character. Amy Bloom thank you so much for spending this time to talk with me. >> My pleasure. >> Thank you. [MUSIC]
