So, I'm back with Matthew Smith. Matthew, having reflected on the events of the Magna Carta anniversary year, I wonder whether you could tell me about the long-term legacy of the anniversary. So, I think it would be fair to say that the legacy of those events in 2015 is mixed. So, on the one hand, there is no permanent Magna Carta Visitor Center at Runnymede as some had hoped. No Surrey County Council's visions of Magna Carta country really realized apart from some very minor tweaks to the signage as you drive into Runnymede. There's no real manifestation of that. It certainly hasn't become the type of heritage destination as was envisaged in the lead up to the anniversary. But, there have been some other forms of legacy from 2015. So, if we look at a museum for example, from their programme of activity and the lead up to and during the anniversary year, we've seen quite a surprising legacy in the form of a rejuvenated local museum on a much more institutionally resilient sustainable footing. So, that injection of lottery money really provided for a sea change in the institution, in terms of having the credibility and the track record and through developing community partnerships to then reach out and do many more of those types of projects in the years since the Magna Carta celebrations. So, that has been locally one of the most important legacies of Magna Carta and one of its real success stories that it took a really struggling small local museum, which was barely reaching the minimums of museum accreditation and professional standards of a museum and turned it around in terms of its governance, its financial footing and in terms of the engagement of that has with its local community. If we look to the educational legacy of Magna Carta, that really has been championed by Royal Holloway. So, on one level we've got the Magna Carta doctoral school which was funded by the Leverhulme Trust, so that's providing for a whole raft of PhD students to explore the meaning and legacy of Magna Carta and a whole range of ways through the lenses of different disciplines. There's also an ongoing series of Magna Carta lectures, public lectures exploring different facets of the Magna Carta legacy, and there is the one million pound Heritage Lottery Fund supported citizens project. So, citizens is exploring the 800 years since Magna Carta, exploring the history of liberty, protest rebellion and reform from Magna Carta, fruit of the suffragettes and beyond. Looking for those other Magna Carta moments you could say in that history, where citizens rights have been extended or offended or even been put at risk, and how people have responded to those changes and those challenges over the centuries, how the relationship between the state and the citizens has shifted and changed. So, we're exploring that through wide range of different approaches and different projects under the umbrella of citizens. So, a big drive for this is to create a series of digital resources for schools exploring that history, so short bite-size videos that can be dropped into lessons to make those lessons more engaging, there's a whole series of citizenship themed workshops, which the team is developing here. We've been hosting festivals of history for the local community continued to explore those themes associated with Magna Carta further proceed following centuries, and also through online courses as well. So, this year, 2018, we launched a MOOC, a Massive Open Online Course in collaboration with parliament, exploring the history of women's rights and suffrage to tie in with the Surrey of votes for women. So, a whole raft of educational activity here on campus and online The pendant picture of the anniversary is maybe not providing the economic stimulus, perhaps than those in power respired pretty, would you say that is a fair summary across the country or is this more just a local or in-regional case study? So yes, there has been a great deal of variation across the country. So, for example, if we looked at Lincoln, their local authorities did report an economic impact. They reported a Magna Carta effect. Millions more pound spent in the local economy which would they attributed to those commemorative activities, events and projects which they were running. Now, there's been no such reporting of a Magna Carta economic effect here in Runnymede, either by Surrey County Council or Runnymede Borough Council. I think that's because there was such a focus from, particularly, the county and the Borough on that one big commemorative event, and it speaks to attention between wanting to mark these events in the moment and still yet provide for an ongoing legacy. Now again, that may change because recently, this summer, National Trust have been awarded their grant to improve access and interpretation at Runnymede. So, as that space becomes more welcoming and accessible, and interesting for visitors, perhaps down the line we will see an economic impact here locally, but for the most part, the legacy here in Runnymede has been educational in forms of the activities which are being spearheaded by the university and also, at a community level, in the form of a much more resilient engaged outward-looking local museum. I wonder how much the Britain's economic policy of austerity during 2010 to 2015 and beyond affected the commemorations nationally and locally. I think certainly, locally, we saw the austerity politics inhibiting confidence from particularly the local authorities to fund and develop Magna Carta activities which would provide for that ongoing legacy. So, for example, if we look at the case study of the Magna Carta Visitor Center and that was really inhibited and hemmed in by the reluctance of the local authority Runnymede Borough Council to put in a lot of council tax payer money into that project, because when you're cutting core services, it's very difficult to justify investment and a multi-million pound Heritage Center. So yes, austerity politics certainly played a role in inhibiting the type of investment which may have led to a more sustainable legacy coming out of that Magna Carta anniversary. What would you say there was an appetite amongst the local public to see financial investment for projects or for a raft of projects that celebrated and commemorated this significant moment. I think the appetite was there, but only to an extent. Again, we have to view the commemorative activity through that lens of austerity, because that made it so difficult when core services were being cut to invest in heritage and put a particular emphasis on the counselors to have to justify how that initial investment would be repaid to the local community in terms of an economic dividends, in terms of increased tourists spend and so forth. So, yes there was an appetite, I think that was evidenced by interest in the various community activities that were taking place to celebrate Magna Carta, but whether or not, that was sufficient to give the council confidence to invest it more money than they did. I don't think there was investment in terms of millions of pounds worth of local taxpayer. Now, suppose my last question to you would be that, have we arrived at a stage where Magna Carta is almost now a commercial brand in itself. It has pulling power and the potential to draw in thousands if not maybe millions, when projects are done well, and do you think that's the right way to frame anniversaries moving forward? It's a good question. I think to answer the first part of that, yes, I think Magna Carta still does have that pulling power to draw people to Runnymede. Of course what people then do when they come to Runnymede, is an ongoing issue when you don't have a copy of the charter locally and you have still a large open meadow to explore and to try and make sense of as a visitor. So, I think certainly, Runnymede will continue to hold a particular importance both locally, regionally, nationally, internationally, it will continue to be seen as symbolic of a whole set of ideas that people do want to engage with. In terms of how that potential is realized, I think there's still a great deal of working out to be done and in particular, to ensure that if Magna Carta as a brand can draw people here to Runnymede to explore this heritage, to ensure that the benefits that are felt in the neighboring towns and villages, there has been an ongoing conversation about the risks of, if people do come to Runnymede that they just go straight on to Windsor as the nearest next tourist hotspot. It's important to ensure that any increased tourist economic activity benefits the wider community. So, it's how you join up those towns with our historic landscape which is still to be resolved. Okay. Thank you very much.
