You guys are very skeptical of institutions. You're very skeptical of Wall Street, of Washington, I think the Congress is, is pulling in the 6, 7% range. Do you see, gentlemen, any areas in the short to near term future where the left and right actually might join in common cause. Whether it's something as modest as, as, as prison reform and drug sentencing or something as broad as gerrymandering or campaign finance, do you see any, any, any shoots of hope on the horizon? >> I would say that that's not far-fetched with some discrete issues. So, for example, curtailing NSA surveillance is an issue of great concern to the Libertarian right in the Republican caucus and the left of the Democratic caucus. And, and it's almost at a majority vote, I mean it's that potent. So yeah. I, I'm hopefully that we're seeing leadership on both sides of the aisle to repair the damage done by the Supreme Court on the Voting Rights Act. Jim Sensenbrenner Republican for Wisconsin has been leading that effort on the Republican side. And, really has gone about this in I think a very thoughtful way that opens the door for some bipartisan compromise. We'll see. But I wouldn't rule that out at all. On some of the bigger issues, again, there's no reward for doing that. In fact, quite the opposite. And so, I think at least at the moment that's fairly unlikely. Tom, you have a leadership role in a, a group Main Street Republican Partnership which is trying to get more centrist candidates in your own party. Is there any scenario under which you see a grand bargain on taxes and spending and investment coming forward between now and 2017? >> Probably not. Look, a, again, what's the political reward? At the end of the day the incentives in politics are not how many kids you feed it's what do you, do you, it's do you win re-election or not? And the incentives, right now, are probably not to act unless you get the right deal, the perfect deal. What has happened over the last couple decades again, the parties today are something that in political science we say are ideologically sorted. There are no more liberal Republicans, there are no more conservative Democrats. At, at least not in office. And as you take a look at the voters the votes in the House and the Senate, National Journal has documented that well over time. There just aren't any. The factors now the parties have been weakened by campaign finance reform. McCain-Feingold was one of the worse bills we ever passed. Because all it did is it limited how political parties, which have been a centering force in this country for 200 years, it limited how they could raise money. I asked at the time, I was a floor manager, I guess it, where's this money going to go? You think this money is just going to disappear because they can't give it to parties? In point of fact, it's come back with outside groups, at first with 527's, and then after the Supreme Court decision, Citizens United now and all these super pacts, in this special election they just had in Florida, in the 13th district for Bill Young's seat, 75% of the money was spent by super pacts, unregulated money coming in there, only 25% by the candidates. And the parties together. So, all these good sounding things you hear about. Take a, I'm going to take a little shot at the voting right's act, which I think is one of the biggest causes of polarization in this country. Because it ma, it, it mandates that you pack minority voters into district bas, basically. So, they can get equal representation. Well, in the south that has lead to two groups, white republicans and black democrats. Moderate white Southerners are basically not competitive the way the parties have become ideologically sorted. And then add to that the media models that you see today. Media models, these are business models, FOX News, MSNBC. They don't pretend to be objective. It's cognitive distance. You, you tune in to what you want to hear and you get your local fix each night. This stuff is not real news, folks. This stuff is entertainment and, and it is very profitable for the groups that, that do this. The fact of the matter is the media models today are polarizing models. You don't get people up there that give objective views. There's no financial reward in that anymore. And most people get their information off the Internet and I'm here to tell you the crap to content ratio coming over the Internet is just very, very high and so you're dealing with a lot of misspeak, with a lot of non facts and it's hard for politicians in that case to try to shape this stuff. Because Rachel Maddow doesn't like it or Sean Hannity doesn't like it, they carry the message, not John Boehner or Nancy Pelosi. Or even the president. >> It, it tends, what Tom's telling you is our media, the fracturing of our media along ideological and partisan lines tends to reinforce what we're predisposed to believe anyhow. I, I was criticized recently by Rush Limbaugh, on his radio program by name and my base loved it. I got more calls about that hey Rush Limbaugh doesn't like you. [LAUGH] >> For those that watched it. >> [CROSSTALK] But going back to your question about a grand bargain. I think the obsession with a grand bargain is over. In many ways Congress, in a very unappetizing way has backed in to a grand bargain. I mean, revenue did get raised, spending did get cut. If you look at it over a ten year period, it's fairly substantial. Not quite Simpson Bowles level but not, not trivial. Absent a crisis with diminishing deficits at least over the next several years, I think the pressure for a grand bargain just isn't there. >> I guess one of my frustrations as a voter there is that, its like the peace process in Israel, we all know what the map will look like between Israel and Palestine. The question is how many more people are going to get killed before we get that map imposed somehow. And I think there's a same sentiment that we know that we need to do debt reduction, entitlement control, infrastructure investment, and maintain our competitiveness in the out years. But I hear you saying nobody wants to take credit for signing that declaration, because they do so at their great political peril. And it may be happening anyway, is that fair to say Jerry? >> Yeah. These programs are in place >> Well, taxes got raised. When the, when the top Bush tax cuts were allowed to expire. There's been significant reductions in spending actually over the last several years. And you see that reflected in annual deficits coming down. I, I'm not saying- >> Well, the economy's improved too. >> And the economy's improved. >> I think, I think that's a major factor in that. >> Yeah. But, but I mean, tax revenue definitely went up. >> Well mine did, yeah. >> Yeah, yours did. [LAUGH] >> Shouldn't have left office. >> And we all thank you, Tom.
